Forum:Bestiary
Categories and templates I am currently making changes to the Bestiary template, although it isn't complete. The one I am working on is located here. You can see it being used by Fox Cub and Barmy Banana Monkey. These will be used for examples in my post. Differences with Motarris's one: * You must type the name of the monster (reason listed later in this post) * You must type the job's name instead of a number (I personally find it easier to do, because I never remember which number is for what) You can do either. Easier to update, easier to edit for those not used to that system (such as myself). * The drop and pilfer list require you to call the Template:Row to make a sortable list - making drop1, rate1, and steal1 obsolete. You can still use wikitext for these. The one thing needed is to make sure that, for any multiple items (like frogs), the number must be typed after. This is to ensure that the sortable list is... really sorting them by their name. Currently, it's Frog (x3), though we can get rid of the parentheses. Recipe list goes like - Bamboo Bow Recipe, but it can be used like SSF's too, which is - Recipe: Bamboo Bow. Changed the template to make it work like the previous one! Less tedious to update, and probably more flexible if we change it again, ha. I took the code from the Template:Skills (but since I suck, it took a lot of tries to get it right). Format for recipe is weapon Recipe and for tools tool x# (without parentheses). * More detailed stats - these are from the Domo Indo website * The type of monster. If it's a Vengeance boss, an Area boss or a Quest one (you can try by changing Barmy Banana Monkey, in |type, by Boss1, Boss2 or Quest) * Related Quest: Not too sure if it's necessary, still added it. * Behavior: Currently, you can type out anything, but the options should be Passive, Aggro, AggroHP or AggroHelp. There is an additional parameter, |behaviornote (e.g. Ivy Spirit in East Sea Plain are aggro when the player's HP is 1/2, but not in World of Pandora's Box) * Element: automatically changes the color. You can type None, it will return to Non-Elemental. The gray color will probably be changed later, but since we don't have a site palette (we're just using the default colors of the current Monaco skin, Bricks)... it will stay gray for now. Once we decide on some colors, I'll make a CSS stylesheet for the wiki. Now... for that "typing the name of the monster" thing. This is because I would like to include the page into another pag'''e, e.g. Giantwood Forest Monsters. If it uses PAGENAME, it will screw up the page that includes the monsters. However, if you want to upload the picture, you need to go to their individual page - otherwise, it will be screwed up as well. You will need to '''categorize the monster yourself, by their location, element, job, and type (Vengeance Bosses, Area Bosses, or Quest Monsters). Including this in the template will cause some problems. Because the monster page can be included in several categories as listed earlier, if we make a "short" version, it will list all of these categories at the bottom of Giantwood Forest Monsters... which is something we don't want. There are two possibilities of listing monsters by their areas: * Giantwood Forest Monsters * Category: Giantwood Forest monsters (Same would be for their element, or job) Using the former option will not have the list at the bottom of the page. Although, if we use the latter, it would be easy to access it from the monster's page itself (from the category links, at the bottom). Of course, there's the redirect things. But we need to stick to either, or even use both. If we use the first option, we can still keep the second and have "For a detailed list, see Giantwood Forest Monsters". Now, because of there are at least 100 pages for the monsters, I don't want to replace the current template, and update every page. This will take some time to do. I am thinking of starting to convert them by using the template directly from my page, and when it is done, replacing the current Bestiary with my coding, and redirecting my template (the one on my userpage) to the new one. And gradually removing the User:D-day/Template:Bestiary of the other pages, although it isn't necessary. Going back on including the monster page to another. This would only be good for Areas, or Jobs. As for Element... not so much, because the page might be extremely long. I've tried making a short version of the monster page, by making it into a row rather than a whole new table. It screwed up. The short version would have been used for pretty much everything that includes basic information about the monsters (name, level, job, element, etc). It is still possible to make a short version of the individual monster page, but it will be done manually. Like on Eversun South (this is an example). Or just get rid of it, make a link to the long version (Giantwood Forest Monsters page listing all monsters, in their long version). Is there an easier way to do this? Actually, yes - by using DPL (DynamicPageList). It's a powerful extension for MediaWiki, but it's uses a lot of sources. There's a few downsides to it too (such as pages not being updated in sync with other pages including it, or something). I would like to use it though (I've requested it by the contact form, but I think I should have left a message on the Wikia staff... I will do it if you agree on it though). Phew. I hope that was clear. That was pretty lengthy. Anyway, let me know what you think (otherwise, I'll just go with what I think is best - though I'm still puzzling about it). --D-day 17:20, 14 July 2008 (UTC) :My Recipe: Xyz vs Xyz Recipe has mostly been for personal verification. Anything with the former format, I've confirmed personally while Xyz Recipe is from information I've gotten from gYnO's guide or that has been on the page previously (which is sometimes incorrect. :I'm liking the Category format but I'm not sure how using Pagename would screw things up? Maybe I'm missing something. [[User:SSF|''SSF]] 01:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC) ::Aah, I see. I suppose we should use the former then for the Recipe format. ::The thing with PAGENAME screwing up thing... I suppose you have to see it yourself. Use whatever page (e.g. Eversun South), and enter this: ' . ::Then press "Show Preview". That is because PAGENAME on Eversun South is... well, Eversun South. It doesn't recognize it for the two monsters pages. The template Weapon and Skills are currently using the |name parameter to overcome this. ::However, the problem with using the |name parameter is when you upload an image directly from Eversun South, with the two pages included again. Let's say Flying Pupu is missing its image, and you want to upload it from Eversun South. When clicking on the "Upload this image", the name will automatically be "Flying"... only. It looks like it doesn't recognize the words after the space. I actually just slapped the code from Motarrisu to my template, so I'll look onto it if there's something that can be done for that.--D-day 01:57, 15 July 2008 (UTC) :::Gotcha. [[User:SSF|SSF]] 03:06, 16 July 2008 (UTC) :::On another note, do you have any suggestions on how to handle the same monster but with different attributes. Evil Eye has higher HP as a boss in Placid Plain as opposed to a normal mob in Malachite Cavern. Japanese wiki says different steals too although I can't confirm it just yet. I'm thinking seperate articles but am looking for ideas. [[User:SSF|SSF]] 03:49, 16 July 2008 (UTC) ::::I think we should create a different page instead of merging them together, and make a note with the disambiguation template, which is something like . This would go right before calling the Bestiary template. I suppose we should have the normal mob as Evil Eye, and the boss one as Evil Eye (Boss). Same will go for Leech Lich and Leech Lich (Quest). --D-day 04:01, 16 July 2008 (UTC) Updates on the categories More onto the '''Categories. I've decided that we should keep their long version when they are listed by areas, but make a new short version when listed by Element or Jobs, which will be a bit like Eversun South (with their areas added). I don't think adding the drops and their pilfering lists are necessary. They should just be simple lists, nothing too fancy. This will have to be manually done though. We should add a description such which element is best against which for example. --D-day 03:17, 19 July 2008 (UTC) :You will need to manually enter Category: Bestiary along the other categories (area, element, job). More copy/paste, don't really have a choice. --D-day 10:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC) :"Unique" monsters? Because they don't fit as normal ones, or as bosses. An example would be the Weird Caskmaster in the Inn Basement, or the two NPC that turns into foxes in Giantwood Forest. I'm not too sure which terminology is better, i.e. unique or special. They will be categorized as normal monsters for now.--D-day 22:07, 20 July 2008 (UTC) Skills I think some pages have the skill linked, some do not, and some have the description of the skill next to the name. I'm not sure what to do with these: should we make a new article with the skill, even if it's just one line? It seems a bit of a waste to me. But I am unsure if the skill is unique to one monster, or can also be performed by others... and that could be enough to make a new article. This is something that will be taken into consideration... some day.--D-day 22:32, 20 July 2008 (UTC) :In my experience, most skills are unique to individual monsters and I don't think they justify a new page for each one. A short description near the skill would suffice just fine. [[User:SSF|''SSF]] 23:50, 20 July 2008 (UTC) Monsters with different locations, and more So all pages have been updated with the new template (which has completely replaced the old one, as I deleted it to move it from my userpage). Hooray! I've added an in-depth documentation, which I hope is coherent. There are, however, some issues that have to be addressed. Some monsters spawn in two (or more) locations, but have different drops, and gives different XP and HP (e.g. Ivy Spirit and Bandit Bow-Wow). I've been told it's a little messy if everything is in the same table, since they are a little different. I was thinking of '''separating them'. I think, though I haven't checked for some, that there is only a difference if the monster is from a field and from a dungeon. I know that Greedy Rat has, according to the Domo Indo website, the same XP and HP in both dungeon maps, just slightly different steals (the recipes) and drop (just the Map Piece). I don't think this necessarily needs to be separated into two articles though, unless I am being told it should. For the other monsters, the only problem is coming with an appropriate article name. It will be can be Ivy Spirit (Field) and Ivy Spirit (Dungeon), Ivy Spirit (World of Pandora's Box) and Ivy Spirit (Grassgreen Square)]], or anything else. I was thinking of including the two pages into Ivy Spirit. If we want to link them from the areas pages, we would just have to link to their individual ones. Same would be for the Category: Monsters by area. I have been suggested to add a XP/HP ratio, which I think sound like a good idea. This would be integrated to the template itself. The problem is that the XP may not be exactly accurate... I doubt Caskmaster really give 7k XP, which is more than a level 40 monster. I was thinking or maybe changing the way the stats are presented by creating a two-column table. The first table would have the HP, P.atk, P.def, Accuracy and Evasion, the second Aspd, M.atk, M.def, M. accuracy and M. evasion... I think it would be easy to read (such as having P. atk on the same row with M. atk), but it might be too small to contain the whole word. I don't know if using the abbreviations are ok either. I have yet to make a table for the element categories and job categories... but this will be done eventually. I am also undecided if I want to make a "short" version of individual monster pages. No color changes yet. Enough with the wall of text!--D-day 01:53, 26 July 2008 (UTC) Behavior I am not too sure where to leave this post, so I will do it here. All bosses will go aggro regardless of the character's level, but that is obviously not the case for most monsters. From the Japanese Wiki, it says that if you are above ~6 levels the monster's, it will not attack you. Although it might be different for the Deadly Daisy and Blighted Blue Butterfly, I think these will always attack. Should we leave a note somewhere, or should we actually change the Aggro behavior message? I have already "AggroLevel" or "Level" in the template, but I am unsure if it should be kept. I know that some monsters will act... a little weird. I remember being in Canute Canal 2 (Blakatoa), and not being attacked by the Male Stonefish, unless a Female Stonefish attacked my character (how cute). I know that the Female Vampire Bat attacks if it sees your character attacking any monsters (this has been added as a behavior a while ago). I will need some input for that to change the template accordingly.--D-day 04:57, 1 August 2008 (UTC) :Regarding the Daisy and Blighted Butterfly, I still take aggro at level 65, so I'd assume since they're designed only for quests, they always aggro. That sorta brings me to the thought...why only them? =GS= Zethre 17:39, 28 April 2009 (UTC) ::Some monsters always aggro regardless of your level, e.g. Cast Iron Hedgehog and Butterfly Queen. --'D.' (talk · ) 03:22, 1 May 2009 (UTC) :::Actually, not all bosses will aggro all characters either, but that's beside the point. There's generally six types of behavior: Passive (no aggro at all), Family (aggro when you hit something else of a similar type), 50% HP (when your HP drops below 50%), 5 above (aggro any char up to five levels higher), Aggro (any level), or any combination of the above. AKFrost 09:52, 1 May 2009 (UTC) About Avengers If you use an eggsploiter - for example student - to kill the mobs that make an avenger pop, they may not get counted. It's easy to see with the avengers of Dragon's Den as you always need 7 kills to make them pop when you don't use any eggsploiter, but it can change a lot while using one (a friend killed 10 bandit sergeants with his student without summoning the bandit master for example, and I personnaly had to kill 9 giant flying noisy snakes to summon the king while using my nurse). I think this could be added somewhere in the avenger template. A player - 11/21/2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.90.29.209‎ (talk • ) } :I'm wondering if it isn't because the eggsploiter got the last hit on the monster, making it that it doesn't count. Can you look further into this? I cannot test this. --D-day 05:09, 21 November 2008 (UTC) ::Actually the only realistic hypothesis are : 1) It doesn't count if the eggspoiter get the last hit. 2) It doesn't count if the amount of damage dealed by the eggspoiter is too important. ::I could test that but it would take hours and be very boring to finally have an answer that isn't really interesting (and when I get an eggsploitter generally I have better things to do with, as they are time-limited). Cause in both cases the best is to not use eggspoiters at all during the summoning phase. Cause even if it's the first solution, the only way to be sure that the eggsploiter won't get the last hit is to recall it before the end of the fight. But it makes the eggploiter unavailable for 1 hour, so if you want to use an egsploiter for each fight you have to wait an hour between each fight... So finally it's faster if you just fight each time without eggsploiter, cause the time you save by using it is cancelled by the cooldown of the eggsploiter. ::So I think that a note like "It is advised to not use an eggsploiter for these fights because mobs killed with the help of an eggsploiter may not be counted" is enough. ::And sincerely, if a player isn't able to solo a Dragon's Den boss without eggsploiter, he has no chance in front of an Avenger, with or without eggsploiters. People that are able to solo a Dragon's Den avenger with an eggsploiter don't really need it for the summoning part. ::PS : excuse my eventual mistakes, english isn't my native language. ::The same player - 11/24/2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.90.29.209 (talk • ) } :::I forgot about the long cooldown, but I think your hypothesis is sound. I don't have an Sweetheart egg to test it (and I can't go to Dragon Den yet either). I've added it on the Bestiary page, and will add it on the Sweetheart Pet later. --D-day 17:58, 24 November 2008 (UTC) :::Eggsploiters and pets do effect vengeance boss spawn, exactly how I don't know. I do know it's impossible to spawn vengence bosses with just pets, but on the other hand i did have ruby assist for den bosses, and I know my friends have spawned it while using saras. I'm leaning towards majority of damage done for pets in general, but I have no way of proving it. AKFrost 09:45, 1 May 2009 (UTC)